Justification of Deportation - Asian Central

forumadmin · #1 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008

Discuss way deportation is justified here.

Tam · #2 (**permalink**) 06-10-2008

Department of Homeland Security recently signs agreement with Vietnam to allow deportation of convicted immigrants back to Vietnam without sufficient due process. Some newspapers use the term "illegal immigrants", that has the connotation of people who entered without paperwork or are overstaying their visa. Sure ICE does deport those kinds of people, and it's hard to make a case to protect those individuals, but the group of people of concern are "criminalized immigrants", immigrants who could be undocumented, but who could also be here legally. Under immigration law, a convicted noncitizen becomes illegal, regardless of whether they were here legally or not, and although there use to be legal protections in place to grant exemptions, the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) removed these exemption proceedings.

So basically, if you get in trouble, you're pretty much screwed, and get ready to kiss your family goodbye.

tueypoo · #3 (**permalink**) 06-10-2008

Do you think that all crimes would justify deporting anyone? I think that depending on the different levels of the crime should determine if that person should be deported or not. what do you guys think?

optici11usion · #4 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008

I agree. The severity and perhaps even the frequency in which they happen should play into whether or not someone is considered for deportation. If someone is committing murders, rape, arson, robbery, or the like, it's obvious that person is not making much of their opportunity here and definitely not making a good case for themselves to stay. A serious punishment can only be justified if it is a serious crime.

han83 · #5 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008

Here are some interesting facts from this paper:
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impac...mic_costs.html

"In any case, a 2004 study from the Center for Immigration Studies, The High Cost of Cheap Labor - Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget, was one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also significant.

The study also notes that if illegal aliens were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow by nearly $29 billion. Note that number is only for the direct costs and does not count all the indirect costs of the collateral damage being inflicted. "

Steven Camarota notes in a Judicial Watch Special Report, New Fronts in the Immigration Battle:

"All the research suggests that the reason illegal aliens create large fiscal [deficits] for the country is not their legal status, but rather their educational attainment. Sixty percent of illegals are thought not to have even a high school education, another twenty percent, a high school education only. All the research suggests that people with relatively little education make relatively little money in the modern American economy ...[As] a consequence, they tend to pay relatively little in taxes, even if they are legal and on the books.

At the same time, [these individuals] tend to use a fair amount in public services, reflecting their lower incomes. I estimate illegals pay about $16 billion a year to the Federal Government in taxes ... the difference between what they pay in taxes and use in services is about $10 billion. So right now the net drain on the Federal Government alone from illegal families is about $10 billion. If we began to legalize [these individuals] and they began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same level of education, the net fiscal drain would roughly triple to nearly $30 billion."

KGTV report, Illegal Immigration Could Cost Taxpayers Trillions, notes: "The National Academy of Sciences estimated that each immigrant will result in a $100,000 net annual cost to taxpayers."

To give you an idea of "how much crime," as noted in Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Full Swing, in April 2005, the GAO released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003. It found the following:

Of the 55,322 illegal aliens studied, researchers found that they were arrested a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien.

* They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien.
* 49% had previously been convicted of a felony, 20% of a drug offense; 18% a violent offense, and 11%, other felony offenses.
* 81% of the arrests occurred after 1990
* 56% of those charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
* Defendants charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

Note the last two points – they mean the perpetrators were "previously deported." Regardless, ALL those crimes would have never happened, i.e. were preventable, with serious deportation of the illegal aliens already here and proper border security to prevent both entry and re-entry.

In reviewing those numbers, note that the study only sampled about 21% of the incarcerated illegal aliens. To get the full extent of the collateral damage, we need to extrapolate the average number of offenses out across all 267,000 incarcerated illegal alien criminals. Doing so results in some 1,288,619 crimes!

The GAO issued a report, number GAO-05-337R, entitled Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails on May 9, 2005, prepared for the Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims. It noted:

"At the federal level, the number of criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at the end of calendar year 2001 to about 49,000 at the end of calendar year 2004--a 15 percent increase. The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years--about 27 percent. The majority of criminal aliens incarcerated at the end of calendar year 2004 were identified as citizens of Mexico. We estimate the federal cost of incarcerating criminal aliens--BOP's cost to incarcerate criminals and reimbursements to state and local governments under SCAAP--totaled approximately $5.8 billion for calendar years 2001 through 2004. BOP's cost to incarcerate criminal aliens rose from about $950 million in 2001 to about $1.2 billion in 2004--a 14 percent increase."

n recent Testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House Subcommittee on immigration, Border, Security and Claims he stated:

"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status.

In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens."

Ignoring the "minor crime" such as ID theft and property crimes being committed by illegal aliens, here is a summary on some of the collateral damage reaped in crimes as a result of tolerating illegal aliens in the USA:

* In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
* There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.
* 80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.
* Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.
* In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.
* At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..
* 56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
* Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.
* Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.
* Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.
* Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.
* There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.
* Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.
* Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.
* In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.
* Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.
* The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.
* The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

alb3rt · #6 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008

"Under immigration law, a convicted noncitizen becomes illegal, regardless of whether they were here legally or not, and although there use to be legal protections in place to grant exemptions, the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) removed these exemption proceedings."

Because of the way they define it, the statistics Han83 has limitations about what constitutes an illegal immigrant.

"1,288,619 crimes [committed by illegal aliens]" This number doesn't differentiate between the different types of crime and severity. If you look at the total number of crime in 2005 (property crime, violent crime and homicide), there were a total of 390,480,000 crimes in the US. 1.2 million out of 390 million is only 0.003%.

tranh1982 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008

Kudos Alb3rt!

And you should look at the source of the information Han83. It's obviously biased.

nam · #8 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam

Department of Homeland Security recently signs agreement with Vietnam to allow deportation of convicted immigrants back to Vietnam without sufficient due process. Some newspapers use the term "illegal immigrants", that has the connotation of people who entered without paperwork or are overstaying their visa. Sure ICE does deport those kinds of people, and it's hard to make a case to protect those individuals, but the group of people of concern are "criminalized immigrants", immigrants who could be undocumented, but who could also be here legally. Under immigration law, a convicted noncitizen becomes illegal, regardless of whether they were here legally or not, and although there use to be legal protections in place to grant exemptions, the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) removed these exemption proceedings.

So basically, if you get in trouble, you're pretty much screwed, and get ready to kiss your family goodbye.

In a class I had, an Iranian lawyer came to talk about her work in immigration and she said she worked with people who were at risk of being deported. She talked about how she had made sure that her family got green cards and citizenship to protect themselves legally from being deported. She also talked about poor conditions in immigration camps where entire families can get sent to and grow up in poor conditions like poor medical care etc to detain people indefinitely until they have their trial for deportation. They actually have these immigration camps throughout the US. She showed this really complicated chart of how the immigration trials proceed in the US and how easy it was for immigrants to be deported. Doesn't that mean that there are legal protections to grant exemptions still, as in immigrants who are convicted can still get a lawyer like her and get legal protection

han83 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008

It is biased. There's no question about that. Taking the biased comments of the author out of the equation there are still interesting facts that lead me to think that the cost of illegal immigration is greater than most people realize. The cost is the main point I wanted to get across. If you don't mind higher insurance premiums caused by uninsured motorists and higher taxes at the federal and municipal levels to help support jails housing illegal immigrants then that is your prerogative. The fact of the matter is that even if the percentage of crimes committed by illegals is small throughout the country there shouldn't even be a percentage to begin with, so any percent is too much.

I don't know where you got your statistics but according to the FBI at: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offens...ime/index.html
Violent crimes were -- "An estimated 1,390,695 violent crimes occurred nationwide in 2005."

tranh1982 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008

Key word in that FBI statistic is "violent." The statistic that you listed earlier was a broad swath that counted every criminal offense, not just violent crimes.

Bias comes into play when you consider how the statistics are being presented. That website gave you the number of crimes that it AVERAGED out instead of actually counted to all incarcerated undocumented residents. It didn't tell you that it represented less than a hundredth of all total crimes committed. The statistics only highlighted the information that would put these individuals in a much worse light than research that would actually try to be impartial, that would give you ALL the information, instead of screening out what works to bash them and what doesn't.

Statistics ALWAYS have to be double checked, even triple checked. Don't just think that because someone throws out a percentage that it means something. 78% of all people know that.